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Post by Caanon on Feb 13, 2005 10:16:26 GMT
Well seeing the amount of effort the GM's are putting that will be around the time AM is in it's 10th camp (No offence to Neff and his injurys but there is still Ez and some other guy who seem to do squat)
And the T5 problem should be worked out first
Also any words on the Pistol assualt rifle questions?
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Post by Archon Faraith on Feb 13, 2005 10:58:15 GMT
Dceet nefs put alot of work into updating the marine packages making sure they had variation becuase alot were to similar so they should be fine whilst other more pressing matters are sorted out.
Also the difference between a death company and a necron is that death company are only good at combat and (as far as i can remember) dont have a massive save mod. They can therefore be vunerable to shooters with higher strenght guns. Necrons on the other hand have uber guns that out class most peoples guns and then get into combat and can absorb even the dedicated close combat characters attacks.
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Post by Eziel on Feb 13, 2005 12:00:17 GMT
I'm around, more than not almost, and AIM seems to hate me at the moment, so I don't bother with it unless someone asks em to. Which again, isn't often. Regardless, duelling is quiet at the moment it seems.
Oh, and Blood Angels have no close combat save modifier.
Regardless, upgrading to toughness five should be far more expensive than to toughness three. And WBB needs an increase, too, perhaps. 15 points for Death Company, to 30 points prepaid for Necs, and while they have it cheaper for fluff, balance is the issue.
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Dceet
Forces of Order 
Spacemarine
"Desire is irrelevant, I'am a machine"
Posts: 967
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Post by Dceet on Feb 13, 2005 15:40:33 GMT
Believe me, I know how much effort nef has put into duelling since day 1 and I certainly respect him for still being around. Nef injuries? Me confuzzled, I guess ill have to inquire into that.
Well one problem im seeing, or should I say not seeing is people duelling! Do you guys not use the aim chatroom to duel anymore? It would be easier for me to offer my opinion if I could actually witness some duels in actions.
I know it takes a long time for things to get done around here, but there are lots of reasons for that, at the end of the day this is just a hobby it isnt life or death. Maybe my semi-return will help to increase the input from GM's? Also I think Ez does have dedications elsewhere on the board hence maybe explaining his "absence" Jeez caanon I gotta say you seem a lot more stressed than you used to be.
Yeah T5 problem first definately, I was just raising other points for discussion to maybe encourage more commitment into duelling to revive/improve it. Well I posted my suggestions, technically I have no power to enforce or change them hell other people may have better ideas or not agree to my suggestions.
Pistol assault rifle? Please explain? As in counting the pistol as an assault weapon im assuming? Which makes some logical sense, but could it overpower those specialised in close combat?
I think the Death Company WBB is a general shrug off of any wound due to their "visions"
The T5 issue is this to do with any necrons or just the more robust ones such as immortals or lords?
Here are some potential solutions;
Point increase for T upgrades
Point increase for WBB capability
Some kind of initiative drawback for necron characters
Removal of the armour save in preferance to an unmodifiable WBB roll
Reduction of T when a wound/half wounds have been caused
Definately Ez, balance is the issue here as opposed to fluff.
Who would have thought it, back in the old days it was the shooters who were getting minced, now the shooters are retaliating, where is Fenriz when you need him huh? LOL
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nightbringer
Level 2 - Rookie
Enemy of the C'Tan beware!
Posts: 10
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Post by nightbringer on Feb 13, 2005 15:46:58 GMT
Well, I have battles at odd times I suppose, but I had two yesterday with Il.
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Post by Archon Faraith on Feb 13, 2005 18:06:44 GMT
There just not enough people dueling for me to be bothered to duel. Same for every one else really.
Dceet, nef was involved in some sort of car acident and from what i can remember he was quite beat up, probably not helped by the fact that he kept finding bits of windscreen in him and then removing them in the DIY fashion...
The pistol/rifle thing goes like this. Rifles are useless in dueling. Fort example, you have two options, a bolt pistol or a bolt gun. Do you take the pistol that allows you to use it as a close combat weapon and to rapid fire same as rifle (no range things) or the rifle that can only shoot? Also many people have the options for 2 pistols which can give 4 shots in dueling. It leaves rifles kind of moribund.
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Post by schaferlord on Feb 13, 2005 19:10:20 GMT
Well I'm gonna re-download AIM when I can be arsed (don't hold your breath me being arsed don't happen that often)
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Post by Caanon on Feb 13, 2005 20:58:58 GMT
Stressed?... oh that just how I debate
Basicaly I decided to stop deuling T5 char's until something was done to stop the beard. Which is bad as the only other t3-4 char is CE.
Also several packages seem to give you the choice on throwing away points by upgrading downgrading to a bolter
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Post by Lord Nefarius on Feb 14, 2005 19:59:29 GMT
i'm all okay and still alive. just didn't have the chance to get to the computer that much.
well,rolled some stuff and thought about giving the T5 3+Sv chars a reduce parry roll in the end. i think we didn't have this possibility named yet.
thoughts about?
for the problem about rifles being much worse than pistols,this is an older topic,but you can already see a small "balancing" in this sence at the stormtrooper package where the rifle version has a bit better AP. was thinking of slowly upgrading the rifles at packages step by step with rerolls and/or firemody...
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Post by Caanon on Feb 14, 2005 20:53:07 GMT
It's not that they're parrying all of our attacks it that we can't wound them and when we do their save saves it.
Oh and nice to see you back
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Dceet
Forces of Order
Spacemarine
"Desire is irrelevant, I'am a machine"
Posts: 967
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Post by Dceet on Feb 14, 2005 22:18:52 GMT
Well how about a rule similar to martial prowess? Where depending on what tougness you are and what toughness your opponent is, there is some form of modifier? Although yes people of T5 with good saves need to be "tinkered" with, we dont want to neuter them, or make people refuse to go to T5 because of the penalties incurred. Its needs to have balance. Either something needs to be done about the save or about the toughness.
Of course there is a possibility of adding a rending rule for all, a roll of a 6 to wound causes the wound to count as a power weapon or something along those lines? Just a thought.
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Ilairon
Level 9 - General
Number 2.
-II-
looking for someone to talk to
The Shadow shall come and soon the Red Moon will be ruled by one of the dark, lord of shadows.
Posts: 1,434
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Post by Ilairon on Feb 14, 2005 22:52:32 GMT
A thought on addressing WBB that seems like it would be somewhat fluff-like and also help balance it; when someone passes a WBB as it is they go back into the shooting phase and can win sp and ccp. I find this odd because to me if the thing has just been repairing itself it seems that it wouldn't be able to shoot before the person who just blew it up and made it have to repair itself. Same with assault perhaps; sensor-type things may have been damaged and might need to be recalibrated. As such maybe a rule could be designed around the context of WBB and bionics where this recalibration and repair time is taken into account.
If not that then something less fluffy. The WBB and Bionics may only be taken once per duel.
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Dceet
Forces of Order
Spacemarine
"Desire is irrelevant, I'am a machine"
Posts: 967
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Post by Dceet on Feb 14, 2005 23:17:57 GMT
Also people are using the WBB roll properly arnt they? They arnt treating it as an inv. save or anything stupid? As in when you are killed on a 4+ you are ok? And return with 1 wound? etc etc. Just thought id make sure.
Yeah Ilairon, I think your idea sounds pretty good actually, fluffy yet sounds pretty balanced too. Maybe auto losing priority next turn for both shooting and cc. It is assumed the opponent automatically moves away (thinking they have dispatched the opponent). Any ideas for maybe a table for where you are damaged and how long it takes to repair or whether there are any permanent injuries?
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Post by Archon Faraith on Feb 14, 2005 23:36:06 GMT
Im finding T5 acctualy ok at the moment its wbb rolls that are annoying. Mainly because some people make duels last for houjrs because they cant fail them..... *glares at Nightbringer*. Now that was a long duel. I number of times it can be used would be cool to stop duels dragging on and on as it does get rather annoying.
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Post by Lord Nefarius on Feb 15, 2005 10:53:27 GMT
well,for WBBs. in wh40k the necs get them when an identical unit is near... seeing that most duels are 1on1 why should they get the whole 4+WBB when being alone?
i think it's fluffwise okay to reduce their WBB to a 5+ or 6+ roll with maybe a +1 modifier in multiduels that involve some allied necrons.
to clarify the WBB:
when the necron dies the turn ends dead means turn finishes. then the WBB roll comes. if successfull there's the next turn with the nec at 1Wound.
if the necro goes down before his attacks he won't get his attacks. for the purpose of continueing the duel the nec is counted as "dead" for a moment...
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"The Sons of the Lion, how far you have fallen, the Lion the symbol of pride, honour and courage, yet you hunt the night and stalk the shadows, now you have become the thing you so despise." - Fallen Lord Dceet 
